The DANG-DInGIE American
aka,,The Evil White Man
Bron goes moonfruity
Well,,bron the wanderer finally gets himself a spot in The Staks by going all psychogandicly moonfruity minded over the 'issue' of psychopathic murder being at least 'justifiably understandable' and 'understandably justifiable' at best.
And it's the first of 2008.
Everybody say,,'rah,rah,rah sis boom bah!!bron gets honored for his blah,blah,blah!'.
The original post and thread can be found on the Excite political boards,,here:
bron,,this big missive you wrote sure sounds good,,yet your reasoning is just a little left of center.
Or maybe to the right,,above it or below it,,but not on target.
Along the way to erroneous conclusions you scatter presumptuos assumptions that seem designed to give birth to biased attitudes in the reader.
~By mentioning both Clinton and Bush in this regard, the report makes it plain; either both men were guilty of "failure of imagination" or both were not to be blamed to the exclusion of all others, because attacking Afghanistan seemed, at the time, "disproportionate to the threat." So if Clinton is to be blamed for "causing 9/11" Bush must also be blamed. The report makes that plain.~
Which indicates one of three things:
1.It was neithers fault,,it was 'intells' fault.
2.They are not truly in control,,as in have been manipulated by those around them.
3.They both wanted such to occur,,or were okay with it happening.
Which do you think is most likley?
But,yes,,it does make it very plain that to hold either as the 'main cause' is a mistake.
~America has been the main player on the world stage for most of a century.~
Which makes it a 'primary target' for those who garner support through hate,envy and jelousy yet in no way justifies murderous attacks on it's civilians NOR the non americans that are also targted.
Their own people have faced more misery and anguish at their hands and through,from,because,due to them than the Americans or any place in the 'west'.Even more than Israel has,,no?
Why,,if America is the target?
~The collective actions of the various administrations, particularly supporting Israel over the years since its modern re-creation, has been an ongoing insult to fanatic Muslims.~
Just to keep the players straight,,that's America and Israel pissing off 'fanatic' Muslims.
The United States of America.A mix of people and predominately Christian.Which is,,(alledgedly),,Yahaveh-ism as taught by Yeshua Emmanuel,,The Christ.Hence the 'christ-ian' monicker.
That tiny little nation full of Israelis.A single peoples and adherents of Yahaveh-ism,,taught by Moses.
Some 'fanatic Muslims' who are simply 'conservative fundamentalists' of the Islamic Religion (alledgely) a form of Yahaveh-ism as taught by Muhammed,,hence the 'Muslim' monicker ,,by their very existance.
As in,,The Islamic Empire versus Israel and America.
I see that.
I find it offensive that the Islamic Empire is so 'religiously and culturally egotistic' that they feel threatened by the tiny little nation of Israelis being in one little corner of their neighborhood,,don't you?
Wouldn't that be just like a 'traditional black christian' family living in a house their grandpa fought through the civil rights movement to build on a cul-de-sac in a 'now predominately hispanic catholic' neighborhood on the Mexican border being told they can't defend their home and property from folks just coming in and living in their yard and house and MUST allow them to do as they wish?.
That's just like being a bully,,isn't it?
Is that fair and equally considerate of folks?
After all,,the Islamic Empire has control of most of the worlds wealth and a very sizable portion of the Earths land and resources.Can't they help out their Muslim brothers with some of all that instead of money for war?
Control of the Temple Mount?
They have it.
Eradication of The Israelis?
They are still workingon it even tho the Mufti managed to hook up with someone that managed to get rid of about 6 million before certain folks put a stop to it..
And they are mad at America and those others for not letting them finish it when they returned.
I find it offensive that they find it offensive that WE don't want to stand by and watch the 'genocide' of the Israelis or any peoples they may wish to eradicate to gain 'land' for The Islamic Empire.
~And as odd as it may seem to Westerners, history, even back to the Crusades, do not show the West in a good light. Not in the eyes of Muslims.~
And their hatred of Israelis and al non Muslims does not cast a nicey-nice light on them.
Shouldn't a reasonable people hate 'murder' war and misery being dealt over religion?
Isn't THAT what everyone finds offensive about the Crusades,Inquisitions and withch burnings?
~Yes, I know, America did not even exist in the time of the Crusades, granted.~
As in the Europeans and or the British did that,,right?
Or how about saying,,The Catholic Church just to keep with the whole 'battling religions' theme we've got cooking here?
Or as I often refer to is as,,'Castalottaschism'.
~But America is the standard-bearer of the West,~
??Exactly when did we start carrying the 'EU' flag or even the UN flag?
We fly the stars and stripes,dude.
That's the 'standard' America bears.
As you pointed out,,America was non existant during the crusades,,Islam wasn't.
Why did the 'crusaders' mobilize?
To remove it from possession of Mo's Islamic Empire under order of 'a fatwah' from their religious leaders so steeped in castalottaschism..
Yet,,did they fly a plane into the UN building?
NO,,Kofi Annan ran that org at the time.
No,,yet,,why NOT if your 'crusader' psychosis is an accurate 'diagnosis'?
~and the various peoples of the Middle East have not forgotton either the Crusades or the efforts of European nations, especially the United Kingdom and France, to domainate and exploit the region.~
Again,,not America in any form.
And 'castalottaschism' indoctrination in every case.
And it was 'leaders',,not civilians.
All invaders were part of a 'religious/military force'.
And it was the Catholic religion.
Did they kill JFK?
~The sad basic fact of fighting such a war. To achieve their goals, the intelligences services of America have to be right every time. To achieve a successful attack, the terrorists only have to be right once.~
You just pointed out the 'pivotal role' of 'intell' which seems to be forgotten or ignored in the 'blame the headguy' game most play.
A single attack does NOT acheive their goals since the goal of the 'induced terror' is to 'foster fear' in order 'gain' capitulation from their enemy.
IOW,,they won't stop untill they gain 'victory' for The Islamic Empire and Sharia Law,The Ullahs and Princes rule the whole world.
But,,they would like to get rid of Israel ASAP.
Yet,,how does having your own folks opposing doing as much as possible to 'limit' your ability' to be right every time?
~A very accurate opinion. The eerie fact is, one can never know when the war against terrorism will end.~
Sure we do,,'when Kingdom comes'.
And that's a long time before hell freezes over.
But you and I both know that the 'terrorism' is a matter of 'tactics'.
The true battles against terrorism occur when the temptation to cause grief,harm or death to innocent non participants in order to garner or gain political power or influence or personal profit raises it's head.
That's an 'internal battle' that is waged in the arena of the heart and mind.
A place where 'educational policies and practices' has a great effect on cultural mores and ethics.
Just think,,no matter who 'makes the order',,if no one carried the 'orders' out,,would anything happen?
~In a conventional war, the end comes when one side surrenders.But against a foe who spans nations, and yet is not the government of any one nation, how would anyone know that the war was ever, except by the absence of attacks? The war could have been won for a decade... but who would know?~
JFYI,,it spans generations of 'indoctrinational education procedures'.
And the filtering of Yeshuas teachings removed 'the spirit of forgiveness and adoption' from the culture.
Just like this is doing now:
All it would take for the 'war' to end is for allmost all of 'Islams' main religious leaders to tell it to.
That would effectively end the conflict,,except for cleaning up the mess.
AND the Muslims would do the 'deeds' to end it,,virtually NO westerners would need to be involved.
~Ah, but in the minds of Muslims, yes, the United States has indeed done things to them.~
So,,the people in the WTC had done bad things to them?
How about the Islamic folks in the Islamic countries going shopping in the local 'farmer & pet marts'?
Does anything done to someone justify murdering someone that had done NOTHING to them?
The Koran says,,no,,if they aren't infidels.
~10ec, nybrit is right as far as he goes, but folks, it goes back much further.~
To hold a country and it's people accountable for things that happened when people NOR country existed is insane.
If Mo had not have 'filtered' Yeshuas teaching out they would know that.
The children are not to be punished for the fathers sins.
As well as the whole 'spirit of forgiveness and adoption' thing of course.
~Here is a strong difference between how Americans think, and how many other people (and peoples, whether that people are defined by ethnic, religious, or national identity): things that happened centuries ago, or even a millenium, ARE STILL RELEVANT.~
Does that make it 'justifiable homocide'?
Does that mean we do NOT oppose them?
Does that NOT make them 'less civilised'?
And did the 'teachings' of Yeshua have anything to do with US not being so 'heinously unforgiving and murderous' minded?
Is US not following Mo-ism a major reason why we haven't simply nuked those moutains in Pakistan?
~Yes, indeed it was. BUT IT MATTERS to whatever people you happen to be dealing with. And it doesn't really matter what "it" (the event) was. Good or bad, it is still relevant.~
I disagree with that assumption.
Just because a claim for a reason is made,,doesn't mean the claim is relevant.
I was in jail and prison which 'prohibited' me from persuing any other endeavors.
Does that mean I am just in holding those who incarcerated me 'guilty' for those lost opportunities?
Ancient non americans 'attacked islamic folks' before america was a nation.
An Islamic leader made deals with western and european corporations and nations that precipitated problems in those countries.
American and western and european corps committed malfeasence and caused greif.
Sure as regards their own leaders NOT showing sufficient concern in order to protect them.
Justification for murdering folks that had nthing to do with that stuff?
They should take it up with their own leaders,,no?
What did those folks in the towers or the market places have to do with their leaders NOT looking after them in a godly fashion and keep such from occuring??
~The Gurkha people were offered autonomy by the Japanese if they would fight in World War II against the British Empire. The Gurkhas laughed in their faces; the Gurkhas sent the Japanese emmissaries back to their masters in pieces, with the famous remark "The British gave us guns. We will not fight against them."Those guns had been given to the Gurkhas a century before.The Gurkhas never forgot.~
And the Islamic Empire blames Britain,,America,Israel,,and all NON Muslims for the rejection,,or the tactics used to deliver such a message?
Or do they want to 'force them to convert' like the ol' time Catholics did?
~People remember, gentlemen. The more importantly, peoples(collectively) remember.~
People are manipulated,folks.(Don't exclude the ladies and in betweeners,dude.)
After all people remember.
But you seem to have forgetten a lot from history class,bron.OR,,have been 'psychogandicly manipulated' into actually believeing you should be speaking like a 'mo-ist apologetic' or maybe 'the atheistic highly evolved ape like critter' like acadaemia claims science says we are,,which would mean that your 'logic process' is conditioned to stop at a 'predetermined point' rather than following it to an accurate logically equitable,impartial conclusion.
~When George Bush used the word "Crusade" in an early speech about Iraq, one could clearly see in the background that several of his advisors winced.He had committed a cardinal sin in regards to dealing with the Middle East; he had reminded them of a past wrong, and no matter what else Bush said in that speech, EVERYTHING ELSE HE SAID IN THAT SPEECH was taken as a threat of invasion and the intent of the US to exploit the Middle East, as has been done in the past.~
Which unfortuntely points out two things:
1.The folks who beleive such are morons.
2.The people who those folks convince that that is a justification or even an adequate rational explanation in any way for murder are worse morons.
And makes me ask,,'what about the word 'fatwah,,or intifada'??
IF we are expected to be considerate and understanding and tolerant of their words,,shouldn't they be equally observant of the multiple meanings of ours?
Couldn't their leaders,,most of whom have been educated in the 'west' have informed them of the ambiguity of the word as he used it?
Sure they could have,,yet they did NOT,,what does that indicate if not 'maneuvering for conflict'?
~"Bin Laden has always made it clear why he attacked the US.In his mind we attacked him (Muslims) first, by invading Iraq in 1991, by having 'infidels enter Muslim holy sites, and by our support of Isreal"
A very good answer in the modern sense, but as I posted above, the roots of the problem lie further in the past.~
Yet inaccurate for any 'logical minded reasonably sane,civilised human being' to accept as anything but 'blatherings' from a 'deluded or miseducated mind',,or a 'piece of moonfruit' trying to 'give justification' for psychopathic murder to gain political position.IMHsmellyO.
Yeah,,the roots are,,mass manipulation thru religion perpetrated by a certain person,,or more likely those around and after him.
Much like certain folks did with Yeshuas teachings which gave us the 'original crusaders' via a 'sign in the sky' story from a roman wannabe sungod emporer.
And do with his teachings now to 'reinstitute temple and priest class' worship to garner profit,power,position and prestige in his name.
Many would try to turn it to equally murderous behaviour if they could,,yet the society and culture spawned from such stand in their way.
~ Them basic problem is simple; the West dominated and exploited the Middle East, and now the nations and peoples of the Middle East have something the West cannot function without.~
I disagree,,the basic problem is not that,,it is,,,
Politics,,that's all the prob is,,,the manipulation of the masses through leadership positions as relates to socio-economics and personal motivations on the part of the leaders.
In this case it has been wrapped up in a religious facade as such has been many times since time began.
The average people there are like the average people here and everywhere.
A way to support theirselves and or family,,time and chance enough to persue,acheive and celebrate the good times and console the bad and a peaceful non violent society.
Just like all those killed by 'murderous psychopaths' all down through history have been.
No,,the ones doing the deeds against those folks are not average folks sicne they see nothing wrong with 'murderous tactics' against innocent folks because they were 'ordered' to do it.
Lucifer is the death angel,,yet he likes his job tooooo much.
~Shoes are on other feet, as saying goes. Americans generally seem to think they were the innocent victim of a senseless attack; not so. ~
That is a blatant lie,dude.
It was senseless to kill those folks when those folks did not do a thing against any of them at any time,,now or in the past.
And if there was someone killed that was a part of it,,the others are being murdered along with them is a heinous crime anyway.
Shoe,shoe,,trouble from 'inadequate leaders selling their people out' translated to 'foreign civilians' does not make an acceptably logical 'fit'.
~The creation of Israel has posed a problem to the peoples of the MIddle East and the Palestinians in particularly.~
Only because the grand Mufti of Jerusalem was a 'buddy' of Hitlers.
The Mufti and the Fuhrer
Record of the Conversation Between the Fuhrer and the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem
on November 28, 1941, in the Presence of Reich Foreign Minister and Minister ...
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/muftihit.html - 8k
Tell The Children The Truth - Homepage
German Chancellor Adolf Hitler and Grand Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini: ...
Conversation between the Fuhrer and the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem on November 28, ...
www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/gallery/index.html - 105k
Mohammad Amin al-Husayni - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Al-Husayni was also the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem over the period from 1921 to
... In 1941 al-Husayni met Adolf Hitler in Berlin and asked him to oppose, ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Amin_al-Husayni - 125k
~Israel's belief that the land was given them by their God,~
Considering that Mo also thought that was true should give you a reason to reconsider your rationale.
Or did you know the Islamic teachings include that as true?
~and the certain knowledge that only in a Jewish-dominated state will their religion, culture and people have any chance of survival in a world that generally hates them,~
That's true isn't it?
You even said,,'certain knowledge'.
~goes against the Palistinian belief that they have been in the area for their entire history, and that the land is thus theirs.~
Too bad though,,right?
Land LOST in war is land lost in war.
Whether they had a right to it from the past is moot once a war has been waged and won,,right?
If the right to return had been accepted without conflict,,then no right to remain would exist,,regardless of past claims.
And the PALS would have shown they are 'peaceful minded'.Too bad their leaders weren't.
~Two peoples want the same real estate. An unbreakable impasse, unless and until the nations in the region agree to give up territory to create a Palestinian state.~
By 'nations' in the region,,you and the Muslims actually mean 'Israel',,don't you?
How comme the surrounding Islamic States do not make a way to provide land for the PALS?
Does that logic apply to the identical conflict occuring on the US southern border?
Should we cede the real estate back to the Mexicans,,or the Native American tribes THEY bumped?
Should Australia go back to the aborigines?
Where do YOU draw the line,bron?
And who did the Islamists take the land from?
Didn't Mo even wage war for control of The Cube?
You know,,way back then.
He,,or rather his people took over the entire Islamic Empire that way.
Should they NOT give it back to the pre Mo residents that controlled it before the Mo-ists if the Israelis have no right to keep what they won back in '67?
Besides,,it's MUCH MORE than a 'land issue' regardless of the 'miseducated' missive you produced.
~But I must wonder, will any land other than Palentine be "home" to the Palestinians?~
NO,,and no other land will be 'home' to the Israelis either.
Too bad it's NOT about who has a house or not.
After all,,Isn't 'home' where you live?
How will they be content and make anything out of what they allready have if their 'leaders' constantly agitate discontent based on religious and racial elements?
IF they would focus on using the money folks give them to make what they have better than it is and get rid of the 'violent psychopaths' then perhaps they may see that 'land possession' by a 'named nation' means next to nothing in such a small locale if they aren't actively trying to wipe the Israelis off the map.
~lluke wrote:"1st off there is nothing holy about muslims, they are a plague to this Earth and are murderers and supporters of murderers sent from hell."
So all Muslims are murderers, because a few fanatics perform terrorists acts? By the same logic, anyone who calls himself a Christian and commits murder makes all Chrisitians murderers.~
No,,not if one takes into account that Yeshua did NOT advocate the same tactics Mo did.
IOW,,unlike Mo-ism,,Christianity as taught by Yeshua does NOT advocate NOR excuse murder of any kind.
Execution of a murderer,,yes,murder of their children,,innocents or uninvolved folks,,no.
So an 'alledged christian' would not condone nor committ the acts the Mo-ists do.
And as far as saying,,the same goes for Mo-ists,,that would be wrong since the same only applies to other mo-ists,,not non beleivers of Mo.
If you read their writings you will find that it says those who cause mischeif and murder in the land are subject to death,,unless it is against 'non believers in Mo',,infidels,,you and me for instance.Well,,me.I ain't privy to your psyche.
~"They will have to be killed until there is not enough of them left to cause problems."
You are advocating genocide. Hitler reached the same "final solution" for what he called the "Jewish problem." ~
Excuse me,,but an Arab Muslim had a lot to do with that particular 'policy'.
And the policy of the 'Mo-ists' is identical,,except alledgedly based on a 'religion',,not race nor nationality.
Besides,,what easier way is there to insure that YOUR logic works?
IF you wipe out the 'previous inhabitants' then there is NO ONE to lay claim to 'ancestral lands',,right?
Isn't that why the Mo-ists want to wipe out the Israelis now?
As in,,isn't that the purpose of the Pal violence,,to wipe out or run off the Israelis in order to retake land LOST IN A WAR???
Why not fight fire with fire rather than stand idle while you are incinerated?
As a 'former firefighter' I have to tell you that it works in many instances.
~"They believe their mohammud guy will return once they have killed all of us or converted us to their cult and they control the planet"
And Christians believe that Jesus will return at the time of the Armageddon, after which the Christians will control the planet.~
You both have the facts wrong.
Mohammed is not the Mahdi and the Madhi will be in cahoots with Jesus until Jesus (Isa) defeats the 'anti-christ',,according to Mulsims.
Christians won't control the world,,God,,as in Yahaveh and His Christ (Annointed) will.(Many christians will get terribly dissed.)
~For centuries Christians believed it was right to murder non-Christians if the conquored peoples did not convert; the Spanish conquests in the Americas are proof.~
As pointed out above,,that was 'politics' covered by a facade of religion.
Just like the 'terrorists' are doing now.
~Both beliefs are religious, that is to say, superstition.~
Whatever you may think of the religions is 'irrelevant' since it is politics that is the source of the violence.
No matter which facade is on it,,,it is still a matter of 'how much' faith is placed in the leaders accuracy,truthfulness and sincerety regarding placing their position of trust above their own 'personal,career or financial' agendas.
And that has shown to be a more superstitious form of belief than most religions could be considered.IMHsmellyO.
Christ's teachings warns about it by repeating the bits about 'the leavening of the pharisees' indicating that 'trust' in leader-men is most often a mistake.
~He's one of the very few conservatives on this board that have forced me to differentiate between the conservatives (often sensible) and the Neocons (blind Bush worshippers).~
IF you had to be forced into doing that may indicate that you operate way too much from a biased frame of mind,bron.
Most intelligent folks know labeling tends to cause assumptions which lead to misperceptions and give birth to 'biased,prejudicial,presumptuos and therefore erroneous,conclusions'.
To reduce ones world view down to a set of labels used in any more than a 'very loose' fashion is not a good way of facing reality.
The fact that so many average people do that is what enables the 'users' behind all these messes to 'mold people' into 'followers' of the elite.
Be it behind a 'governmental or religious' facade it is still 'faith' in the 'leaders and elite groups' which leads 'citizens' to go along with 'heinous tactics'.
And it even causes some,,like you,,to go 'apologetic' over the moonfruity murderous tactics in order to oppose another 'American political party' in an 'internet discussion board'.
~baretta:We were exploited and still remain to ignorant today to realize that. The terrorist accomplished their goal, I doubt we'll ever be close to ours. ~
Yes,,I have to agree with that part about ignorance.
As to them accomplishng their goals,,not yet,,you and I aren't dead or praying to the east five times a day.
But,,about 'our' goals,,well,,from what I see right now,,there is no 'our'.
Factions have become so diverse that there is not enough of a 'consensus' to enable the word 'our' to be invoked.
The only true 'kryptonite' for terrorism is the 'teachings of Christ' taking root in the individual peoples hearts and mind thereby eliminating the tools of the elite.
Yet,,even tho our country has benefitted greatly from those teachings some of 'our own' have managed to 'attack' it enough to remove 'respect' for it and even remove it from the place where it is most needed in order to help insure that people don't think it's okay to use terroristic tactics.
And that has been enabled by the terrible things done to our educational system.
Yeah,,by folks within the acadaemic system of America,,yeah this:
Too bad we have had several generations subjected to it.
Yeah,,just the HsmellyO of,,
The DANG-DInGIE American
aka,, The Evil White Man
created on: 2/5/08